Pinocchio: Father, whatcha crying for? Geppetto: Because... you're dead, Pinocchio.
Pinocchio: No! No, I'm not.
Geppetto: Yes. Yes, you are. Now, lie down...
Pinocchio: But father, I'm alive. See?
[Looks at himself]
Pinocchio: And... and I'm... I'm real. I'm a real boy!
Geppetto: You're alive! And... and you are a real boy!
Lists are fun, Lists spark debate, off we go
I thought it would be enjoyable for all of the puppet master GM's to compile a list of the "All 1980 & Beyond Team", steroids aside. Here's mine Stromboli's
LF - Ricky Henderson
RF - Barry Bonds
1B - Albert Pujols
SS - Alex Rodriguez
DH - Dave Winfield
CF - Ken Griffey Jr.
3B - Mike Schmidt
C - Mike Piazza
2B - Roberto Alomar
SP1 - Pedro Martinez
SP2 - Randy Johnson
SP3 - Nolan Ryan
SP4 - Roger Clemens
SP5 - Greg Maddux
SetUp - Dennis Eckersly
CL - Mariano Rivera
20 comments:
Ok, I am going to have to disagree with your DH pick. While I love Dave Winfield (who used to be my favorite player before Don Mattingly came on the scene), I will have to say that Edgar Martinez certainly deserves the slot. Apart from Dave Winfield not really being a designated hitter, Edgar Martinez is the prototype when it comes to the DH position.
And I'm sorry, but the most obvious mistake here is in the catchers position. Mike Piazza? Are you kidding me? Perhaps if this was a list of best home run hitters by position, then Piazza may get it. But how do you overlook Pudge Rodriguez for the slot? What Pudge gives up in power he certainly makes up for on defense (this is a list of best overall player at each position, correct?). Nobody can touch Pudge behind the plate, and I mean nobody. Heck, I could catch a better game than Mike Piazza behind the plate, he was an absolute joke.
Please consider a revision on that.
Also, please explain the Pinocchio corallary. I'm confused.
Well PG, as I was going to disagree with Bisho on his DH pick anyway now I have to disagree with your DH pick too.
Frank Thomas was one of the best hitters of the '90's. He matched Bonds and Griffey in every category throughout the entire decade. There is no way you can't have Frank Thomas on this roster.
I also agree that Piazza doesn't have a place on this roster. Rodriguez was a more rounded player, providing exceptional defense, a .300 avg. and the appropriate pop to trump Piazza who just had the pop.
What no Steve Carlton love?
You know I'll go one step further and say that you can't be playing guys out of position. Bonds can't be playing RF on this roster, as he only played 1 game in RF his entire career. So that means that you either have to go with Bonds in LF or Rickey Henderson. I will go with the best leadoff hitter of all-time.
Which leads me to my new RFer. Truthfully I think it's a toss-up between two of the best hitters of the past 25 years. Tony Gwynn or Ichiro. What Ichiro has accomplished in such a short period of time is pretty remarkable. A screw it, I'll go with Gwynn.
Wasn't the winningest pitcher of the '80's Jack Morris? Not sure if that is enough to give him the 5th Starter job, but it should bring his name to the table. Also, if you're going to consider Pedro then I think you have to consider Doc Gooden. You can't have both but you can have one. Which one do you want?
Also, can we choose Pete Rose as the manager? How much money do you think Pete would make gambling on his team if he had this roster!!
If that is the case, would Frank Thomas be credible at DH? Sure, he is a DH now, but when he excelled, he was a first baseman, no?
Gwynn and Ichiro deserve considerations, I agree. Another notable snub...Cal Ripken, Jr. Gooden deserves mild consideration, but I will say that nobody was as dominating as Pedro in his heyday, nobody.
And what about Mattingly? HAHAHHAHAHAAHAHHHAHAHAHAHAHA
Alomar over Sandberg? or even Jeff Kent?
Is that some sort of gay love thing?
Alomar over Sandberg? or even Jeff Kent?
Is that some sort of gay love thing?
Here's my squad...
C - Pudge
1B - Pujols
2B - Sandberg
SS - A-Rod
3B - Schmidt
LF - Henderson
CF - The Kid
RF - Gwynn
DH - None (NL loyalist)
SP - Nolan
SP - Gooden
SP - Maddux
SP - Clemens
SP - Johnson
SU - Rivera
CL - Lee Smith
Alomar over Sandberg? or even Jeff Kent?
Is that some sort of gay love thing?
Alomar over Sandberg? or even Jeff Kent?
Is that some sort of gay love thing?
Frank Thomas amassed just as many of his numbers as a DH as he did as a 1B. Sure his MVPs came at 1B, but even in those years he spent time at DH as well. Thomas will end up going down as THE best DH of his time, so yeah he gets the DH nod.
Wow, someone's a Cubs fan. Sandberg over Alomar and Lee Smith over the Eck. No favoritism there, huh? Alomar was better then Sandberg, that's just a plain fact. The numbers please....
Alomar: .300/.371, 210 HR, 1134 RBIs, 474 SB
Sandberg: .285/.344, 282 HR, 1061 RBIs, 344 SB
And Sandberg could never do what Robbie did at 2B...never!
You're lucky I didn't add the guy who had the most hits in the '90s...Mark Grace.
There is an argument to be made on behalf of Alomar, yes. However, with Smith/Eck, I'll go with the guy who has 478 career saves in 18 seasons over the guy who has 390 in 24 seasons. And I don't want to hear the "Eck came into the league as a starter" talk either. That's not relevant to the discussion.
I'm sorry if we're just talking about save totals then Trevor Hoffman should get the nod! 569, and counting, in 17 years.
I'm not just talking about save totals, I'm talking about the most dominant closers of the '80's and '90's and when I think that I think Eck. In 1990 for the A's Eckersley saved 48 games, struck out 73 batters and carried a 0.61 ERA and a 0.614 WHIP. Ridiculous! That's a lights-out season by a closer that might never be duplicated. He was AUTO-matic!
If I recall correctly Dennis Eckersley squared up against your great Lee Smith in the 1988 ALCS, while Smith was with the Red Sox. Oh yeah, the A's swept the Red Sox in that series with Eckersely picking up 4 SAVES and a Series MVP. He gave up 1 hit and had 5 Ks in 6 innings of work. Goose-egged 'em.
What did Lee Smith do in that series? He gave up 3 runs on 6 hits in 3.1 innings. Going 0-1 with a 8.10 ERA and a 2.100 WHIP.
I'm sorry, Frank Thomas is a first baseman, not a DH, don't spin it, homer. Edgar gets the nod (an btw, talk about unbiased, I'm choosing him over Winfield).
sorry, but no way sandberg is making the cut..that is like me seriously pimping Mattingly...come on, guys, that's a joke.
sorry, but no way sandberg is making the cut..that is like me seriously pimping Mattingly...come on, guys, that's a joke.
Bisho you bastard, I love this post yet I do not have the time right now to compile my list. Fucking consulting work...
edgar gets the nod as DH. When you look up DH in the dictionary, there he is... And I am the biggest Winfield homer ever...
Unrelated, I found it very funny that the "smart" Red Sox fans in tonight's game were chanting "you did steriods" to arod - umm.. look in the mirror sox fans...
I am really upset about being 0-7 to the Sox, but being a game out and with a chance to be tied tomorrow eases that pain quite a bit...
A discussion about the best DH's of all-time will always include Frank Thomas' name. He played more games as a DH then he did as a 1B. He qualifies as a DH!
Now take into consideration that Frank is a sure-bet Hall-of-Famer, with multiple MVPs, Silver Sluggers, All-Star games and during the decade of the '90's there were only 2 other players that could threaten a pitcher like Thomas (Bonds and Griffey) and you've got your answer.
Seriously...Edgar Martinez? Gimme a break!
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